2025-02-03 - Channel 5 Belize

Unpacking the P.U.P.’s Manifesto on Crime Reduction

Just one month into the new year, Belizeans are gearing up for the 2025 elections. Although the official date hasn’t been announced, members of the People’s United Party (P.U.P.), including Prime Minister John Briceño, have hinted at an early date. As the P.U.P.’s current administration winds down, it’s a good time to reflect on the promises made in their Plan Belize Manifesto. Section three of the document focuses on improving citizen security through smart policing strategies and increasing the number of officers on the ground. News Five’s Britney Gordon takes a closer look at the Ministry of Home Affairs’ progress on these goals.

Britney Gordon, Reporting

Back in October 2020, the People’s United Party unveiled Plan Belize under the theme, “Everybody Fi Win.” This manifesto laid out ambitious goals to boost the economy, enhance healthcare, and expand access to education by 2025. In the Safe Society section, they pledged to increase the Belize Police Department to four thousand officers—a target that hasn’t been met yet. However, Minister of Home Affairs Kareem Musa insists this doesn’t mean the party’s plan has failed.

Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs (File: January 29, 2025)

“I don’t know, what you think, how much space you think we have at the Police Training Academy, but we can only facilitate two hundred and say twenty-five recruits.”

Reporter

“But you made the pledge.”

Kareem Musa

“Yes. It’s over time. Have you heard that plan? Belize is a ten year plan. We’ve had the most recruitment than any other administration and I think our numbers are all the way up to two thousand six hundred going up with the next recruit intake that’s coming out in May. Every year we’ve had at least one, if not two squads coming out from our PTA..”

Musa explained that the Belize Police Department is more than halfway to reaching the goal of four thousand officers, which he expects to achieve around 2030. However, the manifesto on the Government’s Plan website clearly states the party’s aim to meet these targets by 2025. At the 2020 launch of the party manifesto, Leader of the Opposition John Briceno outlined the ambitious goals of the True Blu Plan.

John Briceño, Leader of the Opposition (File: Oct 22, 2020)

“We offer sensible solutions because we understand both the people and the problems. Indigenous and ingenious, this manifesto places the highest premium on radical social transformation. Belizeans must as a fundamental right have the chance at a wholesome education, a job at a livable wage, basic healthcare from cradle to grave and a life unthreatened by violence and crime.”

Musa pointed out that one of the biggest challenges in recruiting new officers is the limited space at the Police Training Academy. Despite this, in April 2024, the Belize police force welcomed two hundred and thirty-one new officers—the largest recruit squad in the country’s history. The manifesto also promised to dismantle the Gang Suppression Unit (GSU), demilitarize the police, and introduce more effective measures to tackle gang activity. This promise was fulfilled in 2021 with the creation of the Gang Intelligence, Investigation, and Interdiction Unit, GI3. Commissioner of Police Chester Williams explained the differences between these units.

Chester Williams, Commissioner of Police (File: Jan 4, 2021)

“That unit will be tasked primarily with ensuring that the gangs across the city and even those across the country are investigated from an intelligence standpoint. But in the new unit, we have an intelligence cell, we have an investigative arm and an operational arm. And so, the intelligence cell goes out and gathers the intelligence on these gangs, the investigative cell investigates the gang with a view to ensure that we charge gang members for the gang-related offences under the Crime Control and Criminal Justice Act. And the interdiction or the operation arm is out there in the face of the gangs on a daily basis ensuring that they do not get the opportunity to commit the crime that they may wish to commit.”

The government also pledged to improve the police department’s image by providing better training, merit-based recruitment and promotions, police reform and revising the pay scale. In January, an officer shot an escaped detainee while trying to bring him back into custody. Police Commissioner Chester Williams admitted there were mistakes in handling the situation and emphasized the need for more comprehensive training.

Chester Williams (File: January 3, 2025)

“ I had discussed this matter on Friday when I met with the media in terms of the inadequacy of training as well as equipment used by the police in these instances. I wish that, yes, we have the relevant tools and we had a lengthy discussion about this matter in our conference this morning. And the commanders were asked to speak openly about it and to give their opinion so that we know what we need to do going forward in addressing issues like this.”

While not all the Safe Society goals have been met, the Belize Police Department has ramped up efforts to reduce the country’s murder rate in recent years. In 2023, Belize recorded its lowest murder rate since 2005. Although the number rose slightly in 2024, it still stayed below one hundred deaths. The manifesto linked Belize’s high crime rate to its high poverty rate, promising to address both issues together. Britney Gordon for News Five.

B.D.F. Promised Upgrades to Facilities

For years, soldiers in the Belize Defense Force have been complaining about the terrible conditions of their facilities across the country. Last year, new sleeping quarters were unveiled at Price Barracks camp in Ladyville. Brigadier General Azariel Loria, the B.D.F. Commandant, says more improvements like this are on the way to the force’s facilities.

Brigadier General Azariel Loria, Commandant, B.D.F.

“As I mentioned in the past, we were somewhat left behind when it comes to the infrastructure and other things. For the past maybe fifteen, twenty years, we have not progressed. But for the past thre, four years, there have been a lot of funds injected into the Belize Defense Force. For And it is obvious we’re now having barrack rooms state of the art barrack rooms, modern barrack rooms. Our kitchen that we started to use just yesterday. We have projects done in the south as the forward operating base like how Minister Mira and Minister Marin alluded in their reports. Eyles Camp, , that is the base in the north, we were trying to see how we can refurbish. At Belisario, we’ll have refurbished the and we will continue to refurbish the barrack rooms this year through the CABEI initiative, the CABEI funds and in Fairweather camp as well. Fairweather camp has been the, in my estimation, the most neglected camp. And hence I think that camp or that base needs a good infusion of funds. So that is where we are going to tackle this year. That is where we’re going to concentrate our efforts.”

Brandon Baptist Murdered at Football Game

Thirty-nine-year-old Brandon Baptist, a man who had turned his life around and dedicated himself to God, was tragically shot dead on Friday night. The incident occurred just after nine pm at the Marion Jones Stadium during a football match. As chaos erupted and spectators dashed for cover, News Five captured the scene as police moved in to control the situation. The shooter, or shooters, unleashed a volley of bullets, fatally wounding Baptist. He fell to the ground beneath the bleachers, where his loved ones gathered in shock and disbelief around his lifeless body. Three others were also shot but survived. News Five’s Marion Ali has the report.

Denise Flowers, Mother of Deceased

“Dehn gone da da game fi problem because dehn gone dehn shoot up afta all my son dem too, you understand, like dehn da macho man, like dehn da God. Who is they fi tek life?”

Marion Ali, Reporting

A grieving mother’s sorrow echoes through the community. Denise Flowers, heartbroken over the murder of her son, Brandon Baptist, shares that he had made peace with those she believes are behind his tragic death.

Denise Flowers

“Yoh know weh hurt me, my son mek peace wid the same bally dehn and dehn same bally dehn still kill my pikni.”

Chester Williams, Commissioner of Police

“On Friday night, police had received information of shots fired at the Marion Jones Sporting Complex. Based on the information received, the police responded. Upon arrival, they encountered a lifeless body of a male person, identified as Brandon Baptist.”

Commissioner of Police Chester Williams told reporters today that Baptist went to the game after he learned of a dispute among others.

Chester Williams

“The initial information the police have received is that Baptist who was not at the game earlier at inception was called to the field or to the stadium following some altercations someone may have had with members of the P.I.V. gang. Upon arrival, he was there hanging out with other members of the B.L.C. They were at the lower end of the bleacher and the P.I.V were at the upper end in the same line of bleachers. Brandon got up and he went to where the P.I.V group were, and some altercation happened. During the altercation, some are alleging that Brandon may have taken out a gun and when he did that, the others from P.I.V shot him. After having shot him, he continued to struggle with them and he was eventually thrown over the railing of the bleachers, where his body was later found.”

In the aftermath of the tragic killing, Williams acted swiftly on Saturday, implementing strategies to prevent any retaliatory violence. He mentioned that mediations have been paused to let tensions cool down and allow the community to regain some sense of calm.

Chester Williams

“I went to Belize City on Saturday, myself and Mr. Grinage. We met with the senior command in Eastern Division, Mr. Romero and his team, strategizing to ensure that we put things in place to avert any possible retaliation. And so you’ll see that there is increased police operations in the St. Martins de Porres area and that operation is going to continue for a very lengthy period of time, because we want to make sure that we have things in place to prevent retaliation, even up to the funeral and after the funeral. I have also advised the mediation team, Brother Nuri and Brother Footie, that we’re not going to engage in the new mediation at this time because we don’t want to bring a group together. Tensions are extremely high and that might result in further escalation of issues. So we will put aside mediation for now and allow the police to work.”

Brandon Baptist’s family is clear on one thing: they don’t want revenge. His mother shared their stance, but she couldn’t hide her anger towards those responsible for taking his life.

Denise Flowers

“My son turn to God and unu hate to see that. Unu people out deh weh kill my son. Unu da devil. Unu da evil people. Unu nuh have God eena unu. But one thing that I thank God fa, that my son mi turn to God. We nuh wa vengeance nothing. We left vengeance to God, right, because eena this life ya, everybody have dehn day. We nuh come ya fi turn rockstone. All ah we come ya fi dead and whosoever kill my son, I wish the best to dehn and I left dehn to God because there is a God.”

The other victims, thirty-seven-year-old John Grinage, twenty-six-year-old Herson Mena, and twenty-one-year-old Cameron Williams, were quickly rushed to the K.H.M.H for medical care. Grinage and Mena are still in the hospital, while Williams was treated and has since been released. Marion Ali for News Five.

Who Was Brandon Baptist?

As Brandon Baptist’s mom shared, her son had made peace with his killers and dedicated his life to God. But who was Brandon Baptist? In his earlier years, he was no stranger to the law and the courts. Back in November 2012, he was charged alongside Tyrone Meighan and the now-deceased Orel Leslie for the murder of James Noralez. In 2016, he faced charges for the murder of Stann Creek resident Mariano Castillo but was later acquitted. Then, in August 2019, he was charged with eighteen others for the home invasion of Sarkis Abou-Nehra in Burrell Boom. Despite his troubled past, Baptist had been trying to turn his life around in recent years, as his mother mentioned.

Brandon Baptist, Deceased (File: August 28, 2024)

“I deh pahn the street for quite some while, I get caught up in the jail a lot of times. I was with the police. I always deh pahn news. Everybody knows me, Brandon Baptist, right?

Marion Ali, Reporting

Brandon Baptist was a man almost everyone knew, not just for his past run-ins with the law, but also for his positive contributions to the community after turning his life around. He became an integral part of the Leadership Intervention Unit, helping to make significant strides in the community. In an interview with us last August, focused on gang life, Baptist candidly shared that while temptations were real, his efforts to change were genuine and heartfelt.

Baptist

“Every time I try to do something positive, I fall back. But I still fight it, I still do it. So I decided to like, get together wid my brethren and see if I could try to do something positive back home, back in the Martins with the re youth dehn because you know win uh want the lee youth dehn start stray and then dehn up eena da gang world or da violent world.”

Dominique Norales, Director, Leadership Intervention Unit

“When I first started, it was six months in that I realized that Brandon was thirty-eight, thirty-nine. I didn’t even know he was that age. I thought he was younger. So he was always full of life. Always willing to talk, always, even when he mis-stepped and we have to suspend or we have to give an extended suspension or fire some people from the team that he supervised, always willing to compromise and always comes with solutions. Brandon and I considered him to be not only an employee of the socioeconomic programs that L.I.U has, I considered him to be a friend.”

Dominique Norales is the Director of the Leadership Intervention Unit, an organization through which he had endeavored to make a positive difference in the lives of the youths with whom he interacted. She spoke with him a few days before he was killed.

Dominique Norales

“I saw Brandon last week Sunday as I was leaving from my mom’s and grandmother’s house. And I said, “Bwai you dress up. Weh yoh di come from?” He said “I di come from church.” I said, “okay, well, we’re trying to arrange to go together sometime.” And that was the last time I saw him, and the last time. Well, my team spoke to him was a Friday evening at around five. It’s been really difficult to navigate for more reasons than one.”

Baptist opened up about the struggles he faces trying to stay on the right path. Norales pointed out that this is a common reality for men like Baptist who are always striving to turn their lives around. She emphasized that sometimes, simply reaching out can be the difference between making a mistake and doing something good.

Dominique Norales

“We cannot measure what being in contact with these persons does for peace in the streets. It’s a qualitative thing, it’s a trust thing. It’s not something you can write on paper and I’ve been trying to – with my academic mind – trying to figure out how we qualitatively measure what a phone call to someone means, what someone coming to the office to just blow off steam means, what picking someone up from a situation where they probably shouldn’t be in means. You cannot measure, you cannot write that down on paper. That is not a statistic you can put on paper.”

When we spoke with Baptist, he was fully immersed in a summer program teaching kids the basics of electrical work. He shared that he hoped he had become the role model they needed.

Brandon Baptist

“You lead by example. If the kids in the studio do a lot of craziness, the kids there will do the same thing, understand me? But once you do positive, the kids there will do positive too because the kids there watch what their parents do because it starts with the home. Everything starts with the home. So, by doing this positive thing, there’s several places to teach kids electricals and stuff like that. All the kids there want to do that. Some of them don’t want to learn electrical, and some of them want to come. You understand me? So that will show them the way, if you do positive then.”

Marion Ali for News Five.

Blood Bath Inside Marion Jones Sporting Complex

The shocking murder of thirty-nine-year-old Brandon Baptist during a football match at the Marion Jones Sporting Complex has sent shockwaves through the sports community. News Five was on the scene, covering the game for our weekly Sports Monday segment, and captured firsthand video footage as the tragic incident unfolded. This has raised several pressing questions: Was there adequate police presence at the match? How did the shooter manage to enter the stadium with a firearm? News Five’s Paul Lopez has the details.

Paul Lopez, Reporting

The Marion Jones Sporting Complex saw a massive turnout on Friday night for the Belize District Football Association’s Semi-Finals matches. The night took a tragic turn during the second and final game between Survivors Football Club and Reggae Boys Football Club. Thirty-six minutes into the match, a Survivors player was fouled inside the penalty box, setting the stage for a crucial penalty shot. The tension was palpable as the players prepared for the decisive moment. Just as the goalkeeper and kicker were getting ready, gunshots suddenly rang out, grabbing the attention of everyone on the field. There was a moment of stunned silence before a second round of shots sent the athletes scrambling for cover. In the chaos, a woman was seen sprinting across the field to grab her child who was playing near the outdoor gym. The shots had come from the direction of a group of spectators near the entrance, causing panic and confusion among the crowd. Today, Commissioner of Police Chester Williams confirmed that there was a breakdown of communication between law enforcement officers.

Chester Williams, Commissioner of Police

“Certainly there is some breakdown in terms of the police officers working at such a game. I can say to you that I was not aware of that game being played. I also checked with Mr. Romero, and he do said that he was not aware of the game.”

As the shots rang out there was a stampede in the stands, as fans ran for cover. In the aftermath, one woman was seen on the ground overtaken by grief and in disbelief. A black car, its passenger door flung open, sped out of the parking lot with shooting victims inside, racing towards the nearby Karl Heusner Memorial Hospital. Blood stained the ramp leading up to the stands where the victims were shot, a grim reminder of the night’s violence.

Chester Williams

“We are seeing there is a trend where people are putting together sporting activities in good faith to bring rivalling communities together as a form of intervention through sports. But instead of applying to the commissioner of police for security they find their own police officers and get those police officers to provide security for them. And many times the level of security they are getting for these events is not adequate.”

Spectators, shaken and in shock, gathered on the football field. Tragically, well-known street figure Brandon Baptist, thirty-nine, was pronounced dead in the aftermath.

Chester Williams

“There is no way on earth we would have allowed three police officers to work a game of such magnitude where there are lone gang members. So the fact that there is this shortcut needs to be eliminated and I have said to commanders that If it is that they encounter any such event and there is inadequate security or they have not applied to commander on the ground or the commissioner of police they must bring the event to a stop until they can get adequate police to work this event.”

The incident prompted a statement by the President of the Football Federation of Belize, Sergio Chuc.

Sergio Chuc, President, F.F.B

“A place meant for unity was struck with fear and grief. We extend our deepest condolences to the families, the victims and all affected by this meaningless act of savagery. Football is meant to inspire, build character and unite, not to be a place of sorrow.”

The Belize District First Division Tournament draws teams from all over the district, but most are from Belize City, a municipality gripped by gun violence. Brandon Baptist was likely at the game on Friday to support his brothers, Akeem, Raheem, and Hubert Baptist, who all play for the Lake Independence Football Club. But where was the police presence? A police mobile arrived just five minutes after the shooting, and one person was seen being handcuffed and placed in the back of the vehicle. News Five has learned that only four police officers were assigned to the event due to a lack of sponsorship for the tournament.

Sergio Chuc

“This year the FFB is expanding initiatives in new programs such as goals before gangs, and Not Impossible Because She is Possible. These programs will reach over three thousand at risk youths. But programs are not enough, with the combined efforts of parents, mentors, coaches and community leaders, we can teach our children that violence is never the answer and that their lives are important.”

A premier league match scheduled for Sunday at the Marion Jones Sporting Complex has been postponed.

Chester Williams

“I had advised the president of the FFB to postpone the game to give us some time to deal with what took place on Friday. It is not because we don’t think we can handle it. Most of our officers were engaged with Friday night’s incident or dealing with operations in the Martin areas and other areas and other areas to avert retaliation.”

Interestingly, the stadium was bustling again on Saturday morning, less than twelve hours after the tragic incident, for high school and collegiate sports. This time, police officers were out in full force, conducting thorough searches on students at the entrance. The bloodstains from the previous night’s murder still marked the footpath, a stark reminder for the young athletes of the violence that had occurred. Reporting for News Five, I am Paul Lopez.

Police Special Duties Without Permission

ComPol Williams has often criticized how his officers handle special duties. It’s well-known that officers take on extra assignments to earn some extra cash. However, the commissioner insists that they shouldn’t be sneaking around behind their superiors’ backs to do so.

Chester Williams, Commissioner of Police

“The officers who would have gotten the call to work the event ought to have said to the organizers, I cannot work this event without you seeking permission first from the commissioner of the local commander. It does not have to come to me. A game that is of such nature within eastern division, the organizers could have gone to Mr. Romero and said we are having this basketball game at such and such a place. We need security to work the event. Mr. Romero would be in a position to approve and tell them your request is approved and this is the amount of police you would be required to pay for this event. So, what happens is his response would be nothing less than ten police. They don’t want to pay for ten police so they would go behind him to the lower level officers to get them to work for them and just get three.”

Reporter

“Was Mr. Gamboa the contracting officer?”

Chester Williams

“Mr. Gamboa is saying no, on that particular night he was not notified. But he also admitted that on two other occasions he was contacted and he and worked there. I said to Mr. Gamboa that as a senior officer he would have had an obligation to inform myself or Mr. Romero or refer the people to myself or Mr. Romero to decide how much police would have to work the event.”

Reporter

“Did they do any search of people coming into the game?”

Chester Williams

“I asked that question and they say yes they did. I cant say they were lying, because you and I would know that the integrity of the Marion Jones fence is weak. People can throw things over the fence and come in through the ordinary way and when they get into the compound they can go and get the thing on them. But even in the absence of that, when you have the PIV and BLC gangs on the bleachers in the same area police officers ought to have been up there to make sure there was no clash between them. That did not happen.”

Man Murdered while Relaxing in Hammock with Wife

Police are currently investigating a tragic murder that took place on Friday evening in Cotton Tree Village. Thirty-year-old Seferino Maas Pop and his wife, Amalia, were peacefully relaxing in their hammock on the front veranda when a male voice called out to Pop. Moments later, the man fired several shots, fatally wounding Pop. News Five’s Britney Gordon has the full report.

Britney Gordon, Reporting

On Friday night, thirty-year-old Seferino Maas Pop was unwinding with his wife, relaxing in a hammock on their front veranda in Cotton Tree Village, when tragedy struck. It had only been about half an hour since Pop had come home from a long day at work when someone called out “Leeco,” a childhood nickname. Moments later, gunshots rang out, fatally wounding Pop. His brother, Alfonso Pop, was among the last to see him alive.

Voice of: Alfonso Pop, Brother of Deceased

“My lee breda just mi do come work with me. We just mi reach bout twenty minutes after work. I mi di look fi go bathe in the shower. I just hear some shots burst outside and then I come out outside. I looking for somebody. I mi think police deh round because police deh around every minute. I just come out, I looking around, fi he wife mi di bawl. She seh oh you breda, ney kill you breda. We tek like surprise because da lee bwai, he noh get into problem. Always I seh to everybody. Always when somebody done dead, ney call him a good person or a and person but this whole village di seh bout this lee young bally yah, ehy ney kill because I know I have other brothers when ney drunk ney look foi problem and so but he, when he drunk he noh get no problem with nobody.”

As the shots rang out, Cho dashed into the house, miraculously escaping unharmed. Despite this, Cho and the rest of the family are deeply shaken by the targeted attack. Pop mentioned that if the shooter hadn’t called his brother by name, he would have thought it was a case of mistaken identity.

Voice of: Alfonso Pop

“They call fi he name before ney do that. So we cya seh ney do it by mistake or ney come deal with the wrong person. I can’t seh. If ney no call fi he name, we mi wa seh maybe ney gone look fi other persons and ney kill the wrong person. But ney call his name before tney come to fi he house.”

According to A.C.P. Hilberto Romero, police are yet to determine a motive but have two suspects in custody.

A.C.P. Hilberto Romero, Regional Commander, Eastern Division

“Around seven p.m, police responded to a shooting incident at Cotton Tree Village. Upon the arrival, they saw the lifeless body of Seferino Pop. Information that he was on the veranda of his house when someone called his name. He got up and that is when several shots were heard causing his fatal injuries. In regards to this investigation, we have two persons in custody. And the investigation continues.”

At the time of the attack, police were out on their nightly patrols in the area, which has unfortunately become a hotspot for violent crimes in recent years.

A.C.P. Hilberto Romero

“Operations are being conducted how searches and different policing operations in that area, but by the time they responded, the suspect had already left.”

The loss of his brother is a devastating blow for Alfonso, who had been supporting Seferino in building a life with his family. That day, Alfonso had invited Seferino to work with him and share a meal, not knowing it would be their last lunch together.

Voice of: Alfonso Pop

“My lee breda, like I said, I know he just work everyday. Seven to five. Just come home, we do a lee drinking and so. No all the weekend to but he drink. But like I seh, he no offend nobody. Like everybody she he used to heng all round the village, go Belmopan and so ney she why ney kill the young bwai but da di person weh no offend nobody.”

Romero explained that the police employ a variety of tactics to reduce crime in the area, driven by different motivating factors.

A.C.P. Hilberto Romero

“We have different, one is drug activity and other rivalries between persons not area. There is a team that is in that area to try to prevent these shootings.”

Britney Gordon for News Five.

Was Devon Chable the Victim of Vehicular Homicide?

In another incident, twenty-two-year-old Devon Chable lost his life at the hands of people he knew. The tragedy unfolded in the Altamira area of Corozal Town, where three individuals in a pickup truck reportedly chased Chable as he desperately tried to escape on his bicycle. The pursuit ended near Naybaz Store, where the driver allegedly ran him over. Despite being rushed to the Corozal Community Hospital, Chable unfortunately died on the way. Prompt police action led to the arrest of two suspects, while the third is believed to be hiding in San Pedro.

6-year-old Stella Maris Student Drowns at Hangar

An investigation is underway after the tragic drowning of six-year-old Gabriel Pablo Orellano, a student at Stella Maris School. Earlier today, Gabriel left school and somehow ended up at the hangar near the Belize City municipal airstrip. Sadly, he entered the water and didn’t resurface until his body washed ashore later. In response to this tragedy, Stella Maris School canceled classes for the rest of the day. This afternoon, the Ministry of Education issued a statement expressing their deep sorrow over the loss. They emphasized their commitment to supporting Gabriel’s family during this difficult time and urged the community to keep the family and the Stella Maris School in their thoughts and prayers. We’ll have more information in our subsequent newscast.

How will LIU Continue Its Work in Lake-I?

Let’s revisit our top story: the tragic death of Brandon Baptist on Friday night has once again put the spotlight on the Leadership Intervention Unit (L.I.U.). The L.I.U. has been doing crucial work with at-risk youths throughout Belize City, especially in Lake Independence. Earlier today, we had a chance to chat with Dominique Noralez, the Director of the L.I.U., about their approach to helping the youth in Lake-I.

Dominique Noralez, Director, Leadership Intervention Unit

“Our strategy, particularly in that area, is to remain in contact with the persons who are perceived and who have been labeled as gang members and gang affiliates. And so the employment program that we run in that area is of particular interest, but one of the things that I ensured that we did when I came onboard some one year ago, is to ensure that we roll out social programs as well, or direct our clients to social programs because we can’t do all of that. If you are to look at that particular initiative, how do you gauge or measure the efficacy of it? While there is the financial component where you’re paying for these young men, and perhaps women, to be meaningfully engaged, how do you look at the overall effectiveness of it? I think, for us, many a times people come to us. In fact, we just finished our data collection process with our new cohort. This is the fourth cohort that we have and many of our clients have dropped out of school in high school, some of them have not even been to high school, they stopped at Standard Six. There’s a cultural confidence things as well because some people think that they’re not good enough to re-enter into the formal education system or even good enough to apply for a job that I’m pretty sure they can learn on the job. And so we are trying to do a better job at monitoring and evaluating our people after they… leave the program.”