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Feb 4, 2011

Caleb Orozco and UNIBAM take gay rights to the Courts

Caleb Orozco

A first of its kind lawsuit has been brought against the Attorney General’s office involving sexual orientation. Caleb Orozco and the United Belize Advocacy Movement (UNIBAM) have filed a constitutional case, challenging section fifty-three of the Criminal Code. The section reads “Every person who has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any person or animal shall be liable to imprisonment for ten years.” That, Orozco says, criminalizes consensual physical relationships between gays and lesbians.  UNIBAM is using sections three, six and fourteen of the constitution as a basis for their arguments. The Church State system of education is not expected to have any sympathy for UNIBAM. The date of the case has not been set but it is expected to come up shortly as it was filed since last year. News Five spoke to Orozco about his lawsuit.

Caleb Orozco, Executive President, UNIBAM

“It looks at the issue of privacy and recognizing human dignity, it looks at arbitration and protection of arbitrary searches and interference of privacy and it looks at equal protection under the law.”

Delahnie Bain

“What spurred this movement?”

Caleb Orozco

“Not so much what spurred the movement but the context of it is that there is a discussion all over the world where there are certain laws in countries which discriminate against sexual minority groups in particular countries. The problem with those laws is that it’s used as an extortion tool, it’s used as an intimidation weapon and it’s used to harass; even if the laws aren’t routinely enforced. What we seek to do is read down the law in such a way that it clarifies the right of persons in consensual intimate relationships once and for all.”

Delahnie Bain

“You mentioned to me earlier that this is something that’s also being looked at in the Caribbean?”

Caleb Orozco

“In terms of looking at the Human Rights issues and human rights needs of the L.G.B.T. population, there are other partners that we have been working with for the last three years to assess the human rights needs across the Caribbean region. One particular partner at this moment, had filed a constitutional challenge addressing the issue of discrimination against transgender people in Guyana. I will accept that there will be fear mongers out there trying to use with a message that the sky is falling, but the reality is that this challenge is simply part of a larger evolution of groups who are dissatisfied with the equal treatment under the law seeking redress. This is one tool that we’re using in a democratic society.”

Orozco says that if the case is successful, it would be the first of many steps that need to be taken to address discrimination against sexual minority groups.


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67 Responses for “Caleb Orozco and UNIBAM take gay rights to the Courts”

  1. BZNinCALI says:

    Caleb, thanks for bringing this to our attention & I hope you are successful but I don’t remember a case of homosexuals being prosecuted for consensual acts done in private. But I do agree that homosexuality & bestiality are not the same & again, good luck.

  2. sasha says:

    Whether it is acceptable by the community or not has to do how the law perceives it and if it is against then the laws need to be modified because they were written decades ago and you have to change laws as circumstances and consequences dictate, I’m sure these people didn’t want to be born this way, just as colored people would have preferred to be white so they wouldn’t be enslaved or have more opportunity than they have now.

  3. Disappointed says:

    Sasha who the hell are you to assume that colored people ( and for your information the correct term is black people)would prefer to be born white. We are quite proud to be black people, I don’t know what race you are but you certainly are ignorant to make such an assumption. Also do not put us in the same category of homosexuals, that is a sexual preference and you have a choice to choose what preference you wish to practice. Black people are a RACE of people their is no choice there. YOU ignoramus

  4. BZNinCALI says:

    Sasha, most people of color don’t want to be white, in Belize, the US, India, now Egypt & other parts of the world people of color fought for access to opportunity. For years the banks in Belize hired only people who fit a certain demographic, the result was not only a brain drain but locals did not feel welcomed & often set up there own system of banking, if you don’t remember, ask your parents about the syndicate.

    We have a black Prime Minister, the US has a black President, we have had men of color who have headed the United Nations, WHO to name a few, what all of them have in common is that in addition to being black, they married & procreated with black women & whether or not we like their politics, what we see are confident, bright children with whom many of you would trade places. White people enslaved other whites before they went to Africa to bring blacks to the New World, many brought over indentured servants from their homeland. An indentured servant is a slave by a different name & that practice is still alive & well in many paces, it is simply kept under the radar.

    There are homosexuals in every racial & demographic group, “These” people are our brothers & sisters, aunts, uncles, children & grandchildren, please do not treat them like the handicapped child we don’t let the neighbors see or pity them for being “born” that way.

  5. lena says:

    we all have the right to challenge the law….as a democratic country… but if and if… this can make the news…when we have bigger problems…and i don’t mean this is not a problem….or is it…but honestly….we are in Belize…where we have sell out lawyers…. and if this people are successful then we as a people are easily bought just like the lawyers.. if that happen then what….. power to the lawyers.

  6. ER says:

    The first two posts above show the ignorance if so many people. To compare the color if my skin to people choosing to have sex with the same gender and say they are the same thing is ludicrous. They will lose this case if only for common sense. Come on Belize, don’t let the voice of a few make policy for the majority. As Caleb says this is a democracy and majority rules so Caleb you lose!

  7. fabian says:

    Gay Rights? Is this a myth or truth?

    As far as I’m aware, we all have the same rights. The fact that an individual has a particular orientation, be it sexual or any other does not mean that they do not have the same rights as any other individual. The fact that you do not take advantage of that right does not mean that you are being denied of your right.

    For too long gays and lesbians have been crying that they have not been treated equally or that they have not been granted the same rights as others. This is totally false. They have the same rights as others but choose not to use it and instead want to introduce their unacceptable conduct as rights.

    Imagine this, an individual now falls in love with his dog and wants to marry his dog. This individual now believes that a marriage is defined as a union of two living beings. This individual encounters much opposition getting such a view accepted by society and now feels that the rights of such people are being trampled since they are not allowed to satisfy their sexual orgy.

    The fact that such an individual refused the rights that all other individuals have does not mean that such individuals do not have equal rights. They just want their own ways and preferences to be classified as rights and in order to justify this; they claim that they do not have equal rights.
    It is time that we stand up and refer to things the way they really are. Black is black, white is white; right is right and wrong is wrong. Just because you prefer something else doesn’t change the facts. I’m just surprised of those who have and enjoy these rights are so quiet about it. Do you need to lose it to talk about it?

  8. The People Had Enough says:

    Keep this code intact, don’t budge Attorney General, “Every person who has carnal intercourse AGAINST THE ORDER OF NATURE with any person or animal shall be liable to imprisonment for ten years.”

  9. Concerned says:

    Fabian,

    Gay and lesbian people are often killed and certainly treated as second class human beings for one reason only – because of who they love. Do you believe the government should legislate against people because of who they love? There was a time when people of certain races were not allowed to socialise and it was considered immoral and wrong to think otherwise. As we learn more about ourselves as a species we learn more about the ways that human beings are alike and differ from one another. Perhaps you have not lived in fear for your life every single day as many gay and lesbian people have to do. Are you suggesting that it a good thing to allow that to continue? Surely not. Comparing a consensual relationship between two adults to someone wanting to marry a dog is not only ridiculous, it is worryingly ignorant. This is about consent – an animal cannot consent to a consensual relationship. Nor can a child.

    Would you feel comfortable having the government legislate against anything that you choose to do in the privacy of your own bedroom with your own sexual partner? I very much doubt it – so why would you suggest that it is OK for the government to interfere in other people’s sex lives.

    Since when have gay and lesbian people refused any rights? You really do need to articulate this more clearly for it to make much sense.

    I get the feeling that you think homosexuality is wrong and that is fine, but it is an opinion. We can’t have morality imposed upon us because of individual opinion. There is a very interesting piece of research that demonstrates that those who have an aversion for homosexuals are more likely to be gay. It makes interesting reading.

  10. BZNinCALI says:

    ER, take the blinders off, the first post never mentioned race or equated homosexuality with race. I believe I addressed the fact that bestiality should not be equated with homosexuality & questioned whether or not the law has been enforced against homosexuals because I don’t remember our courts ever prosecuting two men or two women for something done in the privacy of their home. Gay or straight, all of us can & should be prosecuted for having sex in public because we have standards of decency in every community. The day I equate being black with being a homosexual, not only will I turn in my black card, my children & my husband are free to commit me because I would need that padded cell.

    Fabian, don’t be ridiculous, no one is talking about cross specie breeding or romance.

  11. shock says:

    Sasha,

    I have great sympathy for what people of your sexual orientation has to suffer, but your broad statement about black people want to be white cause me to think of you with mixed feelings. Many of the respondents have set the record straight, so you don’t have to live with such mist consception
    about us anymore. However I must agree that there are some blacks who feel the way you think all blacks feel, but I gurantee you that they are in the minorty. And I say, fight for what you feel is right, just as us blacks fought, and still fight for what we believe is our rights to be treated with respect as being part of he human family.

    For those of you who see this through lens with narrow views of this very complex situation in human experience, i would suggest that you do research, and I mean lots of research on this subject , because even in 2011 homosexuals are been killed in many societies by ignoramous. We shiver to think that in some societies its lawful to stone someone to death,and the same for honour killing commited by some family against another family member, and the justification given, is that either man’s law, or God’s law say it lawful. Yet the same Bible speak about stoning to death for commiting certain act against the society and God for that matter.So why don’t we carry out stoning to death since its stated in the Bible that its justified. It also states in the Bible that anyone who shed man’s blood his blood should also be shed. That been the case, why is it that many societies have done away with capital punishment?

    Did you also read in the Bible how women were treated for a natural occurance as their monthly cycle? Knowledge and truth is what set mankind free, and we have to search deeply for real knowledge. Society have been using all kninds of frame of references in dealing with a host of things we do not quite know how to manage for the good of the wider society. Just stop to think of what men has done to women for as far back as we can find records, and even to this day in certain society women are treated as second class citizen. The record that in many middle east society is that grown women are not allow to go out of the house alone, nor drive an automobile, something that is as common as walking on the stree in most countries for women.

    Finally, remember that it was trumped up evidence that Jesus has broken man’s laws that caused him to be put to death.

  12. Skywalker says:

    @fabian… You miss the point completely. How can you compare a relationship with a dog to that of two adults? Can a dog consent to relationship (sexual or otherwise) with a human? You contradict yourself in your post. A dog is not human, and is therefore not seen as equal in the eyes of the law as both hetero and homosexuals are. I am a married heterosexual man, and yet it continues to baffle me how people can compare homosexuality to beastiality and other sexual depravities. Look, it’s 2011; there’s no reason for any country to have such laws anymore.

  13. Justice says:

    God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Gay people always want more rights than anyone else. I know some and they can be nice but others are just trying to force their lifestyle. I worry about children being adopted by a gay couple as they will be indoctrinated early. I worry about gays infiltrating the boys scout or girls guides system as I am not sure why they keep fighting to be a part. If they choosethat lifestyle, that is their busisness and they should not try to change everything. If he was in Jamaica that would have been riot! There is no way Jmaicans would stand for that. Belize is already corrupt to try give what is already against nature on edge.

  14. MyLegacyB4myPeople says:

    It’s there business if they want to live a life contrary to nature as long as they are not hurting any one in the process same way that Chic Fil A has the right to make contributions to any one they so please to http://www.ajc.com/business/chick-fil-a-counters-821566.html and homosexuals also have the right to not purchase from Chic Fil A if they choose to, if God see this as wrong then they will have to answer to him even if they don’t believe in him. That’s all for now people don’t have time for these petty little matters got to go look after my legacy, remember My Legacy B 4 my people.

  15. Proud Belizean says:

    I am heterosexual and I’m married to my wife and have 2 children. I don’t and never will find a man attractive, yet I am not homophobic. I believe that we all should have the same rights.

    The point being fought for here is that our laws do not recognize and penalizes people for having sex with same sex partners. UNIBAM is fighting for legislation that will de-criminalize (or allow) same sex individuals to engage in intimate relationships. I also share the belief that same-sex relations should not be compared or grouped with sex with animals which is a completely different thing.

    I have seen several cases where men have been charged for having un-natural crime for engaging in sexual behaviour with other men. However, I don’t recall any women being charged similarly for engaging sexually with other women.

    Justice, that’s why Jamaica is in the situation its in. And of course the Bible condemns homosexuality, but some people do not choose to be gay; they are born with that inclination. Who are we to judge them? Let’s leave that to God.

  16. belizeanpride says:

    If we all remember when a cruise ship came full of gays we didn’t like it and some even protested about it, now they want to legalise their lifestyle as a right, are we going nuts? God made man and woman not man and man, so come stop that petty excuse of having the right to legalise gay rights, this will bring more wrath to our country already affected by so many crimes happening daily in the city. if they want to live as gay it’s up to them but never ever legalise any rights more than what they have right now. if we consent this first step they’ll go on to getting married which would be the worst thing in our country’s history. let’s not live like mexico where they already are getting married.

  17. friskyflowers says:

    “This challenge is the first of its kind in the region. It will align an individual’s civil rights with that of his or her human rights of which sexual orientation certainly falls” said Derrick Flowers, Vice President UNIBAM’s board of directors. In 2009, gay rights activists in India made a similar challenge and were successful. The landmark ruling by the high court in New Delhi secured a significant victory for gay and other sexual minorities. “We feel that the timing is right. For decades, gays and lesbians have lived in fear unable to seek protection and justice from the law” says Flowers.

    In a village, a school yard, on a football field or in a library a teenage boy or girl dreams of a promise that remains unfulfilled. The promise that is proclaimed each and every time the Belize national anthem “Land Of The Free” is sang. It is the dream to be a son or daughter of Belize living in a country where freedom rains. On September 21, 1981 Belizean men, women and children were joined by their highest ideals, their best hopes of freedom, independence and sovereignty. But today, not everyone is flourishing under the shade. Men and women of homosexual orientation are not free to live their lives to the fullest. They are not free to love who they choose to love. For many Belizean lesbians, gays and transgendered individuals whom after puberty have began to recognize that he or she is attracted to members of his/her same sex will also realize that their freedoms are limited, making them second class citizens.

  18. Anteri says:

    All I have read so far are people equating homosexuality as a choice. The “hard truth” is that being a homosexual is as natural as being a heterosexual. It is mirrored in nature, it has roots in genetics, and the common factor between all of us (gay or straight) is that we are all human, and deserving of rights. There is a reason that in the 1970′s, homosexuality was no longer classified as a disorder by the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association. Because it’s not. It’s not new, it has been around as long as people have been. Rational, scientific and non-ignorant people who know and interact with homosexuals on a daily basis can tell that we’re just like anyone else. I think that’s the biggest scandal of all, and it is true with all the different people of the world: we’re more alike than different.

    All these people who point to flawed logic and many who just speculate with having no real basis infact. Mexico last year allowed Gay people to marry. Are we still to be held in the dark ages in terms of this issue. It’s about time they fix this law.

  19. CEO says:

    More power to you my brother! I support you!

    For those of you that do not think change is needed then this is why criminals are still walking out of court as free men and women. These laws need to be changed in Belize so criminals don’t walk out of court as free men after committing serious crimes.

  20. Concerned says:

    Justice,

    Your comments make no sense. If you believe in God, then you’ll believe that everyone is God’s child, however they are made and they are not to be judged but to be loved equally. If some people are gay, then God must have made them that way. I’m sure you don’t think it is a laughing matter that gay teenagers are committing suicide because of flippant comments such as yours. I’ve never seen that gay or lesbian people want more rights, they just want the same rights to live and love as everyone else. As for gay couples adopting and indoctrinating their children, that has to be the most illogical statement ever give that almost all gay people were raised by heterosexuals, who didn’t manage to indoctrinate them to heterosexual – despite, in some cases, serious abuse in an attempt to do so. That should be an indicator to you that you can’t change what people are. It is not a lifestyle choice. Get real. Who in their right mind would choose a lifestyle that makes them a target for hatred from people like yourself? Why on earth would someone choose to live in a way that makes them subject to violence, threats and discrimination? Honestly. You cite Jamaica as a good example? Surely you do not believe that it is OK to pull people’s children, mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters out of their homes and murder them brutally just because of who they love. If you do, then that is very sad indeed.

    belizeanpride – I would think that given your moniker you would be proud of all Belizeans and the contributions they make to Belize who every they love. You are far off the mark. A cruise ship full of lesbians arrived last year. Do you know what they did? They painted and beautified the children’s hospital and donated tons of wonderful things to needy causes. The Prime Minister’s wife, Kim Barrow, proudly greeted them and welcomed them to Belize. What makes you think that giving everyone equal rights would affect the crime rates? That is the most bizarre connection I’ve ever heard. You say that gay marriage would be the worst thing ever in the history of Belize – well I think that would be hilarious if it were not such a ridiculous thing to say. Obviously you think that gay marriage is worse than murder, rape and torture – all things that Belize has had to deal with in recent years. Please, do tell me how gay marriage in Mexico has in any way damaged the country. What has damaged the country has been the internationally known homophobia in Belize that prevents many thousands and even millions of tourism dollars from coming our way.

    I wish people would think, really think, before they say such pointless, mean and unhelpful things.

  21. John Boy,Carson,Ca says:

    What two cosenting adults do behind closed doors is no ones buisness.I am not gay , but at the same token I am not ignorant.I am a christian , and I served a God of love.I do not think gay people would make Belize any worse than what it is.All the killing in Belize the last time I checked it is not gay people doing the killing.I have a problem with ignorant people, and not gay people.I am so happy I could live in a country where I could express my opinion.

  22. fabian says:

    I can understand your desperation to defend what the Bible and society consider as despicable actions, but to prove to you in a very simple way that such actions are not only immoral but also in itself make no sense except to satisfy the flesh in an unnatural way,
    Two men having sex or two women having sex will never produce another human being that way as this is totally unnatural and despicable. I can understand the deep desires of homosexuals to do this but that still does not make it natural nor right. I can understand individuals in this category to totally disagree with what I say and try to argue their behavior as rights.
    I can also understand that a dog cannot reason as pointed out, but the point is not whether the dog can reason, it is the fact that the individual wants to have their unnatural sex behavior accepted as a right. As to the question asked, “ Would you feel comfortable having the government legislate against anything that you choose to do in the privacy of your own bedroom with your own sexual partner?” if that sexual relationship is against the norm then it should be considered immoral, wrong and illegal. Making an illegal action private does not make it right.
    As for those suggesting that more research needs to be done in order to have a more favorable view of homosexuality, I suggest that they do more research as to the real use of human anatomy which a homosexual seeks after. I can assure you that it certainly was not made to be sued for what homosexuals use it for. The fact that such filth comes from it suggest in its own natural way that using it for anything else is filthy.
    I can use a knife to cut a slice of bread or kill an individual with it. I can assure you that the latter is neither right nor was that the intention of its making. I understand also that a knife is not a human being for those who may get confused and see no connection between this illustration and the point I’m trying to make. Homosexuality has always been and will always be wrong whether such individuals influence a change in laws or get in office/power to change the laws to suit their needs.

  23. snap says:

    I am so deeply saddened by the examples of hateful ignorance and intolerance presented in some of the comments here. You’d feel so much better if you stopped hating yourself for what you are and embraced your homosexuality. God created you this way – it’s not some choice dependent on your will that you can make or not. God bless you.

  24. BT says:

    “carnal knowledge against the order of nature”… Is not the order of nature to procreate? The language of that law could be interpreted to mean that any sexual relations you have that is not for the sole purpose of getting pregnant is illegal. How would you feel if you were charged for having sex while using birth control, or for engaging in non-intercourse acts of intimacy? After all, nature intends for you to reproduce, right? Law is black and white, not gray. You can’t let the law into some people’s private lives and not others. Do you want the law to tell you how, why, and with whom you should have sex? This is not just a “gay issue”. This is a human rights issue.

  25. Skywalker says:

    Fabian and Justice, you continue to completely miss the point. Concerned wrote a beautiful comment and I thought there would be nothing left to say after that. However, can we just agree that once and for all, the Bible should not generally be used as a reference point or justification for anything, least of all legislature. The Bible may condemn homosexuality but it also says that women are unclean just for having their periods, mildew is evil, and that you must not wear cotton and linen at the same time (in the same chapter). That is really all I have to ad to this, as I think Concerned and BT summed it all up. Glad to see there are sensible Belizeans.

  26. belizeanpride says:

    @ CONCERNED
    if you really go back the first cruise ship was gay and then the lesbians, looks like you never got the info corect, secondly every single person has the different views and if you want to take it your way, no problem, but remember no other latin country has consented this type of gay rights except Mexico not because it’s a taboo but they know it’s not right before the Almighty God which you should keep in mind. Instead of helping correct the lives of this people that cannot be like us heteros, you encourage them to go ahead, come on.

  27. Concerned says:

    fabian,

    I think you’ll find that society does not find people despicable because of who they love and the only Christians who do are the ones who use the bible to justify hateful and unChristian like behaviour. I know that some people, such as yourself, are very terrified of change and that is understandable. But luckily for us we learn more about human nature and we stop using prejudice and ignorance to demean, diminish and abuse people. It wasn’t that long ago that women had absolutely no rights at all and people, such as yourself, used the Bible as a weapon to beat them down. I wonder what Christ would think of your judgments, hate and lack of understanding of those who are suffering from abuse, discrimination and violence.

    If you have ever had sex without the single intention of procreating than your argument is null, void and completely hypocritical. Many animal species engage in same gender sexual activity, so your argument about nature has absolutely no basis whatsoever.

    You continue to use the term ‘unnatural’. While an emotive word, it is not relevant to this debate. The term was also used to discriminate against women, black people and many other minorities when it came to their civil rights.

    Why should your definition of ‘normal’ define what everyone else should do. I’m sure that many people have different views on what is ‘normal’ in the bedroom between two consenting adults. For people of some religions, the only normal way to have sex is fully clothed with a religious leader present. So are you saying that it should be up to religious leaders to define normal. Given that people worship many gods and have so many interpretations of ‘normal’ this could become rather confusing. I’d rather that the government stay out of my bedroom as long as long as everyone is adult and consenting – thank you very much. Your desire to control what people do in their private lives, I find quite disturbing and borderline obsessive. But again, if you have ever had sex without the sole intention of reproducing (including with yourself) than you are a hypocrite and really have no right to comment on this subject. The more vociferous you get the more you sound like you have some issues you need to deal with.

    You suggest that homosexual sex is ‘filthy’. Do you actually know what homosexuals do in the bedroom or do you just imagine what they do or pick it up from dirty movies – which of course depict all sorts of ‘filthy’ heterosexual behaviours too. But I’m sure that a truly honest, and moral Christian such as yourself has never watched a dirty movie, engaged in sex outside marriage or sex without intention to reproduce because if you had you would not wish to be seen as a hypocrite.

    Homosexuality will always be wrong to you (maybe – people who take off their blinkers and learn about the world are open to change and becoming less bigoted) but that doesn’t mean it is wrong to the many thousands of real Christians and others who do not judge people based on who they love, but what is in their heart.

  28. Concerned says:

    belizeanpride

    I am well aware of the tiny number of mean minded protesters who embarrassed Belize internationally quite a few years back. Fortunately, people have become more aware and kinder since that time. Unfortunately, you have demonstrated your ignorance of this subject. Argentina, Brazil, Columbia, Uruguay and Ecuador all recognise same sex unions and offer equal rights. They are at the forefront of change. You don’t really think it is your place to decide what the ‘Almighty God’ (whichever God it is you are referring to as there are so many) thinks, do you? Using His name as a weapon to discriminate is surely not something you or your religion would be proud of, would it? Supporting murder, rape and abuse all in His name. I’m sure that isn’t what your ‘Almighty God’ had in mind.

  29. JustWilliam says:

    Homosexuality is neither a choice nor unnatural. Homophobia however, is an irrational fear and loathing, and like any phobia, a sign of psychological illness. Those are scientific facts.

    I am glad to see that there are plenty of intelligent, rational, and moral Belizeans to counter the nonsense from the homophobes. They need to be gently reminded that their insane obsession with gay sex and ancient Jewish scripture is nothing to be proud of. It is counter to Christ’s teachings, and it is counter to any government based on freedom and equality.

  30. Disgusted says:

    Whoever thinks that gay/lesbian is ok is full of the devil and the demons of hell!! Just read the bible and you will read: In the beginning it was not so!!!!!! And if ever someone will try to get that legal here in this country, woe to them! Its a curse, and a sign of complete, and again I say, COMPLETE AND UTTER CORRUPTION! And I will not step down in this matter

  31. snap says:

    Fabian, belizeanpride and other filled with hate lost sheep of the Lord. God is Love and he loves equally all of us. Even the atheists are covered by the Lord’s love. I can’t offer a proof to those who choose to persist in their evil ways and speak the language of hate, but I believe in God’s Love and that when the day comes for you to face the Lord he WILL forgive you even all your hate. Meantime I prey that the scales fall off your blind eyes and you see the light of the Lord to lead you towards good and turn away from the evil.

    God bless us all.

  32. BZNinCALI says:

    @ Concerned, they’re not hearing you, their minds are made up, fortunately, I do not think that their views reflect the majority. I chuckled as I read the comment about the gay cruise; shopkeepers & tour guides are in business to sell their wares & services, statistically gays have more disposable income & if they choose to spend there money with us. Thank you is good enough.

  33. louisville,ky says:

    Fabian, maybe what you should have reminded Concerned about is what befell Soddom and Gomorrah. I totally agree with you that homosexuality is filthy and that it is an abomination…… Dispicable! Personally, I have no use for any ……….. and before anyone classifies me as being homophobic; let it be known that I am not scared of none ah unnu.
    Statistics prove that most homosexuals are child molestors and that heinous act in and of itself warrants the death penalty as far as I am concerned(no pun intended). Move frahn roun me wid unnu slackness!!!
    Man was created by Jah to love and find sexual gratification in a woman, not another ….. …… man. Really and truely, the rights and justification that gays are seeking are no different from the debased thinking of a killer who truely believes he has the right to take another person’s life. To some it may appear far fetched and disconnected………..but we are talking about RIGHTS, remember??

  34. Katrina says:

    The Bible contains 6 admonition­s to homosexual­s and 362 to heterosexu­als. This doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love heterosexu­als; it’s just that they need more supervision…

  35. snap says:

    @louisville,ky, American Psychological Association disagrees with you on the subject of most homosexuals being child molesters. Gay men are no more likely to molest children than heterosexual men. (http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/child-sexual-abuse.aspx)
    God bless you, and remember that the Lord loves us all – even those who out of malice or ignorance spread hateful lies.

  36. spanglish says:

    AT THE END OF TIME, EVERYONE OF US WILL GIVE GOD ACCOUNTS FOR WHAT WE DID, SAID, FOR EVERY ACTION, WE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. SOME OF US MIGHT NOT BE GAY, BUT THOSE THAT MEANS WE ARE RIGHTEOUS? HELL NO!!!!
    EVERY BODY FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. NOT ALL OF US ARE GAY, BUT ARE WE FREE FROM SIN? COMMON EVERYONE, STOP POINTING FINGERS AT ONE ANOTHER, LET US PRAY THAT GOD WILL CHANGE PEOPLE HEARTS, NEGATIVES COMMENTS WILL NOT HELP.

  37. Dvirgin says:

    why all this negatives comments about gays, you know how much men do anal sex with their women???
    Does that make them gay?
    I agree one hundred percent with spanglish, all of us will give account to God on judgment day.

  38. Concerned says:

    louisville, ky

    Could you please cite references for the statistics that you claim exist. I think you’ll find that there are none, because no such statistics exist. They only exist in the minds of those who are frightened (and yes, whether you admit to yourself or not, the rest of us can see that you are terrified) and ignorant. You really do yourself an injustice by presenting such a poor argument. As they say ‘you can lead the ignorant to information but you can’t make them think’. Your comments are based on hatred and that is very sad because love is what makes the world a better place. Perhaps rather than spend your time spreading lies and hatred you should do some studying and actually learn some facts about human beings rather than listen to tales from thousands of years ago, because if you really want to go down that road, let me help you familarize yourself with the bible a little bit more and ask you some questions about it that you might be able to help me with.

    a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
    pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
    They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? How?
    b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
    Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price
    for her?
    c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
    period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how
    can I tell? I have tried asking, but many women take offence.
    d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
    female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend
    of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
    clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
    e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
    35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
    kill him myself or will you arrange it for me?
    f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
    I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
    g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have
    a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does
    my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some slack here?
    h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
    around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
    Lev.19:27. How should they die?
    i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
    unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
    j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
    different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
    made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
    tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to
    all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone
    them?(Lev.24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private
    family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.
    20:14)

    I very much look forward to your informed reply.

  39. belizeanpride says:

    @concerned

    i have feeling that you might have a family member or friend seeking the right caleb orozco is looking for, becuase you’re really concerned about this right issue. and it doesn’t surprise me that you know alot of the bible which even the devil himself is full aware of the bible maybe more than you. looking at this issue if i ever had a family member with this problem of being gay from small i’d heartly would work with him to discourage his way of thinking, instead of pushing him more into it by telling you yes go ahead you have a right to live that way, help you brother not to fall more in to hole of sin than to push him more where there’s no return after live. there are treatment for them to grow more male hormones than the what they might have. just look at the travesties they get hormones to turn their bodies into female like, which can be done the same to a gay to turn into a male person. think about it, but it really concerns you too much, to make you push more your bro into this than to help him change his life to normal male thinking.

  40. Concerned says:

    belizeanpride,

    If I had a parent, child or sibling who were gay I would love them no differently than I would if they were not gay. I, like most educated people in the world, do not consider being gay a ‘problem’ because it is well established that it is not a problem at all. The people who do have a problem with gay people tend to be godless, angry or closet homosexuals themselves. You have yet to answer a single question presented, so I suspect that you are not very well versed in the Bible yourself. Do you never sin? Have you had sex outside of marriage? Have you had sex without the single intention of procreation? It is hypocrisy to judge others in this way and very un Christian. To suggest that someone who is more familiar with the Bible than you are might be the devil is truly un Christian and certainly does meet my definition of despicable. There are no ‘treatment’s for being gay and again, you show your ignorance by suggesting so. Gay men do not have fewer male hormones nor do they take female hormones. You seem to be confusing homosexuality with transgenderism, which has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality but with gender. Totally unrelated subjects. Gender is about whether you are male or female. It has nothing to do with sex or sexuality. You really need to become much better informed on the subjects of sexuality, gender, Christianity and the Bible before you try to debate these issues publicly. I’d be grateful for any reasonable answers to my very reasonable questions. Do you eat shellfish by the way? As I’m sure you’re aware, that is considered an abomination according the Bible.

  41. Trish Jarvis says:

    It’s time Belize caught up with the rest of the world. The ignorance displayed by some of these responses sickens me. If you think being gay is a choice, then when is it that you chose to be straight? Grown adults should be able to have sex as they wish behind closed doors – it is not the role of the state to dictate what is sexual acceptable conduct behind closed doors and it is not the role of the state to act as outdated moral guardian.

    The analogies between race and sexuality are misleading because there are also gay black men and gay black women who face intersectional discrimination.

    Belize, we need to wake up and say ‘no’ to intolerance and bigotry!

  42. BZNinCALI says:

    belizeanpride, I had decided to walk away from this one because many of us dig our heels in & fail to listen to reason but giving someone hormones to “straighten” them out is …well….ridiculous.

    Without naming names & embarrassing anyone’s families I will tell you that many of us have watched men & women in Belize forced to conform & try to live a heterosexual life that brought misery to their straight partners. Birth control freed up mine & my children’s generation so that we are able to enjoy sex without fear of pregnancy. Imagine being that wife whose husband cannot bear to touch you, the emotional toll it takes on a human being when something as natural as breathing is revolting to your spouse.

    I know several people from Belize who have been in those marriages & saw the emotional toll it took on them. No amount of hormones could have turned these men straight, just like giving birth to three children in as many years make the women lose their desire for women. As a parent, not only did I not get to choose the sex of my children, I cannot choose their sexuality & can only hope that the health care professionals have enough balls to tell you to take a hike when you try to have hormones prescribed for a healthy child to help you save face because that is all it comes down to but I do appreciate your spirited defense of your position..

  43. Felipe Cayo says:

    The legal argument is very clear; it uses the language “Against the order of nature.” A little research shows that homosexuality is common to over 1500 species of animals:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Nature%3F
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

    Case closed. The only unnatural act is that which one cannot do.

  44. Tim says:

    Most nations that were once under the control of the British (Australia, Canada, India, U.S., South Africa, and yes, Belize) can trace their laws against “buggery” and “sodomy” (both gay and straight) to England’s Victorian-era ignorance about human sexuality. Almost all, including Britain itself, and most recently India’s Supreme Court., have struck down these laws. To see how antiquated Belizean law is on this matter, visit http://www.ilga.org, select “Male to Male Relationships” from the drop-down window, then zoom in on the map of North, Central and South America. You’ll see that the overwhelming majority of nations in the Americas (and the world for that matter) never did, or no longer, criminalize consentual sex between men. Only Belize, Jamaica, Guyana and Peru retain such archaic laws. C’mon Belize…you’re a beautiful country with wonderful people. ALL Belizeans deserve to enjoy equal treatment under the law, but sadly your gay citizens are treated like criminals. It’s an increasingly accepted fact that communities, companies and nations prosper in every way from confronting myths and stereotypes about minorities, overcoming fear, embracing difference and celebrating diversity.

  45. Justice says:

    Everyone tries to make excuse to justify the wrongs they do . I do not have the time to address each comment as I would like but will address all in one commnet especialy “concerned”
    Concerned you do not see any sense in my commnets or any other peson who opposes your way of thinking. Your way of thinking is your perogative but does not make it right. God loves all of us and also gave us rules to guide us but did not enforce those. He have us a free will to choose. He loved Lucifer but had no choice but to send him to hell.

    Leviticus 18:22, which reads: “You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination.

    Not sure if you understand this as you seem to have a problem understanding verses from the bible but it is as clear as day.

    The laws might seem antiquated for some but you know what it is for the best, If you choose to be gay that is your perogative but do not feel that you need to try to change everyone to accept you. If it is your child you will love them yes but do not need to encourage them. Talking about time Belize is caught up with the rest of the world. That sounds like a recipe for Sodom and Gomorrah! I would rather my children be brought up in a society where I do not have to worry how many gays out there are trying to get to them or trying to indoctrinate them.

  46. Freedom Fighters says:

    I really hope they win as i am 100% with them, no one is else wants to fight for their rights aand here we have someone who is doing just that and people are trying to degrade them!! >:( where is the logic in that?

  47. Jesus is the only Hope says:

    Its not hate talking against gay and lesbianism but God is the same yesterday, today n tomorrow. these are things Christ had spoken of sayn that in the days of end times what is wrong will be called right and right wrong. God is love yes, but He is three times Holy! He loves His creation “us” but hates sin. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were burn to death because of their evil ways they were warn but didnt listen. God is God and needs no help to Judge but Christ said that we must help our brothers so we must exhort and say whats true. If you want to give urselves away to sinful pleasure then dont fuss when judgment comes upon the nation. If you are a Christian you will not be ashamed of saying that you are against any such act…and you all that agree and say that others must do their research you must go back and do yours. God made everything perfect and if He was to make children be born like that why would He destroy them? You want for others to open up their minds, but instead you are the ones missing the point! I have a sister who claims to be a lesbian i love her but hate her acts, I dont support her lifestyle I go against it all however i talk to her and try to make her reason. As Christians we are called to yes seek the lost sheep and bring Him/Her back to God but its up to them if they want to go back home – God will not permit it. Sin will not go unpunished! This is not a hate speech…but as a part of my duty i must say the truth, for Jesus said that your Yes be a Yes and your No a No, He said I am the truth, the light and the way…no one comes to the Father but through me. God bless…

  48. BZNinCALI says:

    I thought we were all God’s children. How many of us stood there & recited “I believe in one God, the father Almighty, maker of heaven & earth…….. ” How many of the people leading us in prayer or sitting beside us in church were closeted homosexuals & how many of them were encouraged to get married, procreate, do God’s will & only made some man or woman’s life a living hell. Deal with the issue in front of the court right now instead of projecting where we think this movement will go.

  49. Elgin Martinez says:

    We don’t even educate the Belizean people about safe sex and we’re arguing about Gay rights.Are you people out of your minds.Then we wonder why we’ve got the highest Aids rate in the region?Maybe the Department of Health should focus on educating the Belizean people about sexually transmitted deseases and stop wasting tax-dollars on this issue.

  50. PAPA says:

    Lets chat what this case is about. Its about amending the law so that it does not apply to consenting adults. The law still is retained to protect minors and the section under bestiality. So arguments about bestiality and not protecting children is hogwash. Now, let talk about the case and its links to gay marriage. One cannot be linked to the other legally, we have common law principles with impacts the link. Fear-mongering can make any link however. Folks, the bible can be used for good and bad, lets remind our selves no one likes to be restricted. For women, could have the state dictate to them how they manage their bodies. Iran does this. Drinking is an issue for Muslims as well. We don’t realize that the constitution arbitrates the society rights for the majority and the minority. As LGBT individuals we are simply using that arbitration tool. This tool allows us to have difference, but enforce the rights of each person. Lets not cause chaos because we don’t understand the science behind sexual orientation. Seek to understand both sides, just don’t be reactive. my two cent on the discussion

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