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Dec 2, 2011

Churches’ Family values march casts UNIBAM aside

Canon LeRoy Flowers

The case brought by Caleb Orozco and the United Belize Advocacy Movement (UNIBAM) against the government is to begin in Supreme Court next week. For the Church, it’s a holy and moral war being waged; for UNIBAM, it’s a legal battle. The church and the government intend to stop UNIBAM from decriminalizing homosexuality. UNIBAM wants to alter Section Fifty-Three of the Laws of Belize that prohibits carnal intercourse against the order of nature.  The Belize Council of Churches is not waiting for the court case to begin and it is launching a family march in Belize City on Saturday. According to Canon Leroy Flowers, President of the Council of Churches, before the march hits the pavement, speeches will be given at ten a.m. in Battlefield Park.

Canon LeRoy Flowers, President, Council of Churches

“Tomorrow has been the day that has been set for a national awareness to the ongoing challenges that the church faces as it waits for the beginning of the litigation in court on the UNIBAM case—the constitutional challenge. And so tomorrow will be an opportunity for Christians in particular but the general populace at large to voice their public support or against the challenge in court. Bearing in mind—and I think this is so important for us as Christians—if we had the final say, we know nothing would change in terms of that particular law. But because we live in a pluralistic democracy, then the rule of law will have to take its course. And I think it is important that as Christians we voice our opinion. However, we need to be mindful we don’t make the laws of the land. The Courts of our land will rule upon the legality thereof on this particular matter. And so I think it is important that as Christians in a democracy, we express how we feel. At the end of the day, whether the court votes against the church or not, we will have our views and that will not change.”

Jose Sanchez

“Canon Flowers in terms of the route, where is it expected to start? Is there a dress code? What should people do? Who intended to come out tomorrow?”

Canon LeRoy Flowers

“Quite honestly I think that has been decided but I haven’t had the opportunity to see that aspect of it. I haven’t had time—so many things been going on. I just got in from Bird’s Isle where we were with another function. But it will be at the Battlefield Park tomorrow; beginning at eight o’clock. I know that a number of persons have been invited—church leaders and civic leaders. I know that the mayor will give the welcome address to the city. I know that the government has been invited to send a representative and the opposition has also been invited to send a representative to probably express some solidarity bearing in mind again that this will be very—the government has to walk a very tight rope because remember the government is in court now. And therefore, when matters are before the courts, if we truly want our democracy to work then we have to be extremely careful as to what we say or don’t say until the case is litigated.”

The case starts in the Supreme Court on December ninth.

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31 Responses for “Churches’ Family values march casts UNIBAM aside”

  1. islander says:

    How is this different from Muslims forcing women to cover their faces and have no freedoms in their countries?

    This grasshopper said it himself, we live in a democracy…NOT A CHRISTIAN DICTATORSHIP .

  2. A Hopkins says:

    Finally a churchman who believes in rendering to God what is God’s and to Caesar what is Caesar’s. By all means express your views. That is your right and it is proper that voices are heard in a democracy. But as the Bishop says, the law must take its course. I applaud him for his mature statement

  3. BMNJ says:

    Why don’t The Belize Council of Churches put more emphasis and efforts in dealing with the breaking down of family values and structures in our society as relates to murders, rapes, robberies, child abuse, etc. instead?

  4. K says:

    How !****** ironic that the church will preach about family values… Why have they ignored the abuse of young children, of women, of poor people… Why didn’t they organize a march for that? Again the only people who will participate in this are close minded bigots. The church doing what it does best, spread hate among mankind. Those of us who are educated, can see through all their superficial bs. Long live equality for all!

  5. Tanya says:

    Its right for teh church to express its views but in a democracy your views are not imposed. The church has for years and history been the brand of hate and divisions between mankind with many innocents being hurt.. The respect of each others right is peace and the doubke standard of the church of family values when there are REAL family values like family structure, murders, kids not in school, human trafficking etc… and where is the church in this.. where is their march ??? This is more urgent as a country and society than if two persons love each othert and do in the privacy of theur bedroom.. They have a right and uts their business and let god be the judge not the church nor us. If you really think you are freee of sin if you want to call it sin then throw the first stone. My best friend is gay and he is the most loyal and loving person i have met,, and OHHH he has good taste in everything and lots of fashion. ja…

  6. The Patriot says:

    Canon Flowers is only being supportive of Democracy because the Government has finally publicly stated that they are supporting them. He said it himself, ” if we truly want our democracy to work we have to be extremely careful as to what we say and don’t say until the case is litigated”. Flowers is banking on the support of the Government and the other influential NGO’s.

  7. Tanya says:

    Its right for teh church to express its views but in a democracy your views are not imposed. The church has for years and history been the brand of hate and divisions between mankind with many innocents being hurt.. The respect of each others right is peace and the doubke standard of the church of family values when there are REAL family values like family structure, murders, kids not in school, human trafficking etc… and where is the church in this.. where is their march ??? This is more urgent as a country and society than if two persons love each othert and do in the privacy of theur bedroom.. They have a right and its their business and let god be the judge not the church nor us. If you really think you are free of sin if you want to call it sin then throw the first stone. My best friend is gay and he is the most loyal and loving person i have met,, and OHH he has good taste in everything

  8. jill says:

    i applaud the churches for standing up for what’s right, these gays like to find other problem to talk about in order to divert our attention so they can make an easy break to make law to suit their deviant behavior, problem will always be, anywhere you go, and this b.s just adding more problems, don’t you get it? IF you’re gay, you are abnormal and down right nasty, stop trying to justify your lifestyle, keep it in the dark beacause most people find it repulssive, i hear this b.s all the time about the church spreading hate but in fact you hate yourselves beacuse you know what you’re doing is wrong but you try to make yourselves feel better by lashing out on anyone that does not agree with the wrong you’re doing, p.s keep in the dark ;)

  9. EMS says:

    Clearly this is absurdity, with al the broken families, single moms, incest, domestic violence against women, child sex abuse coupled with an array of inequities in the jewel, this pseudo religious leader has the audacity to talk about family values. Who does he think he is fooling?

  10. ER says:

    How laughable is it that all these people who are commenting that the church should do this and not doing that have probable not been in a church ever or in decades to see all the work that is being done for the poor, for those who are oppressed, those who need help with their family issues etc.

    Come on people be honest and say you have no idea what your local church is doing…..

    Ohh and @K the only hate I see being posted and said is from those in your camp who cant handle the truth even if said and expressed in love.

  11. brightman says:

    Equality for all under the constitution. Justice demands that we respect the rights of ALL humans. Indeed we live in a democracy where it is the hope that educated minds will prevail. Dictating that homosexuality is criminal based solely on antiquated Scripture is immoral!! It is VERY interesting how the churches choose which doctrines to preach and what “sins” to condemn–shall we go stone to death ALL the adulterers and fornicators???? Oh wait, no, cause Jesus said that only those WITHOUT sin should throw the first stone!! Shouldn’t that be our premise for all things?? Religion can be dangerous: doesn’t 1 Corinthians 14:34 instruct that women should be silent in Church; shouldn’t they also be veiled??..and why is that not being enforced–double standards!! What about all those Catholics and christians who are using contraceptives??? Ahem, isn’t sex according to you, intended for procreation?? Should the police come looking for those of you engaging in sex without procreating, especially if you’re using protection??? Love, and let consenting adults enjoy the same right to love whom they choose. We should not be forcing dogma on anyone–freedom to choose, freedom to decide will bring more people to Christ than dictating to them!! Religion should speak of freedom in Christ, never deprivation of human rights–we are dreading dangerous ground!!!

  12. Louisville, Ky. says:

    If you all are so convinced that the churches have failed the general populace in addressing social and moral issues in the past; is this not a good time then for them to be speaking out against this behavioral pattern that is contrary to nature? After all, right is right and wrong is wrong and, this homosexual behavior is dead wrong.
    No one can stop an individual from having or choosing a homosexual lifestyle. That is your right to exercise free will, just be prepared to deal with the consequences. And don’t expect us to even support any ideas to change our laws that will make our young boys more vulnerable to this abomination.
    Personally, I will fight with every fibre of my exiistence to oppose the spreading of this fecal matter. I have absolutely no love nor respect for that homosexual pattern.

  13. Beautiful says:

    All these comments here saying the church is dictating this and blah blah!!!This whole darn thing is wrong i don’t want this in my beautiful country Belize leave that to the US and other countries!!!Lef uno nasty ness private!!!we no want know!!!

  14. CEO says:

    I cannot believe a man with education and exposure can still be so ignorant. Mr Cannon who ever your name is; do you realize that there are more children violated in homes where there are two parents. Do you realize (of course you do) that there are thousands of children who have been violated by men like you (priests, pastors, and the like). Why the heck didn’t you and your suppoorters come out in full force against this same mess when all the Homo religeous leaders were found guilty of sodomizing little boys and raping little girls?

    Let’s see you line up and organize a march against religeous leaders who are quilty of the same sin and lifestyle! Lets see you fight against povberty and hunger which is the root of many of these crimes.

  15. jill says:

    Again with the bringing up of other issues to justify homosexuality, is that your only argument , about crime rate and molestation of children and abuse of women, i agree all of these problems must be delt with to the max include your homosexuality law, nobody can’t stop anyone who is determine to do this nasty act but keep it behind your doors, don’t get too “faysty” now!.beside i would like to see these gays organize a march to back up what they believe in, i bet most of them here that feels so strongly because they can hide behind a computer and voice their opinion wouldn ‘t be caught in a march, so kkeep your lifestyle in the closet where it belong!!!!!!!

  16. belizeanpride says:

    to prove their fight let the homos march and we’ll see if they have the majority on their side. come on unibam bring on your crowd that supports you. lets see now all you got. i tottaly agree with JILL only behind the computer they write what they want but make them step out of the closet and say it publicly and we’ll see the minority who’s making a big noise for gay rights. bring it on CEO.

  17. Earl Grey says:

    and…WHAT DOES THE CHURCH HAVE TO SAY ABOUT CRIME and POVERTY????

    THE CHURCHES HAVE FAILED US….. they are do doing the WORK THAT JESUS STARTED.

    IT’S A SHAME WHEN THE CHURCH ACTS LIKE THIS and TURNS A BLIND EYE TO THE POOR AND SUFFERING, AND CORRUPTION……

  18. brightman says:

    It is precisely because of your ignorance, backward mentality, and prejudices that many homosexuals refuse to reveal themselves. They range from the ‘faysty’ as you call them, to the very educated who on a daily basis make enormous contribution to the development of this country and the world. Unfortunately, many of them have you to call family or acquaintance–I pity them.

  19. BeautifulMayan says:

    Totally agree with Jill And Belizean pride!!!!!yes bring it on gay CEO i mean CEO!!!

  20. BelizeaninAsia says:

    This is not acceptable so whether the church is not more vocal about other issues or not,it is not reason enough to give reins to this act. I am studying in a certain Asian country where this type of lifestyle is accepted and i say accepted because ppl dont speak out against it even if they dont agree with it they just turn a blind eye to it and i see how sickening it is. children are confused by ppl acting the opposite of what they are and moreover, how much it is exaggerated. yes the church need to step up in other areas but come on Belize, we dont uphold a lot of things and this is one of them. what kind of society are we breeding? If people want to be accepted in this and other things then they’d better migrate to other countries that can support them.

  21. jill says:

    well bright man obviously you aren’t that bright u accuse me of having a backward mentality, when you get arroused veiwing the back side of another man’? i think you have the backward mentality, many of you blame it on ignorance to the situation , lack of education, and everything else your little brains could throw out’, all the education in the world could never help people to understand that liefstyle.you said lots of homos make enormous contributions to the country well good for them,clap! clap! but that still doesn’t merit them to change our laws to suit themselves, so that is the ‘country pay” they want fi contribute to little poor Belize ,well all of you can pick up and go, included caleb fagosco and go live in san francisco, now that’s a bright idea huh bright man;)

  22. John says:

    Belizeans need to be educated about human sexuality. Here are the FACTS:
    1) homosexuality (just like heterosexuality) is not a ‘lifestyle’ or a ‘choice’ – it is part of a person’s genetic makeup. If you don’t believe me, tell me when you decided to wake up one day and become straight. If you are a straight man, tell me if you can wake up tomorrow and decide to love men. I didn’t think so.
    2) Homosexuality and pedophilia are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. 99% of homosexual people (like heterosexual people) just want to be left alone to live their lives– there are good and bad gay people just like straight people. Attraction to children is something altogether different and no one should support that, because (unlike a relationship between CONSENTING ADULTS) it is extremely damaging for a child to have a sexual relationship.

    As Belizeans we have to stop confusing the issue. The issue here is one of granting a discriminated minority the same legal rights as the majority. It is not a matter of ‘allowing all and sundry’ to happen– young children are still legally protected. We need to evolve as a society or no other country will take us seriously.

  23. jill says:

    well john i’m not going to argue about how they were born if they were born that way they were born with a deffect simple ,point blank, but not all were born like that ,your wrong about that one, i’ve seen women who loved men turn to women because of a stupid excuse that men cheat on them ,like a woman can’t cheat on them too, so those were born like that too? how about they lazy man, that deal with other man for money, were they born like that too? the mind is a powerful thing whatever it condition itself to do becomes the norm in your own mind. i agree with you that not every gay person want to molest a child, however the problem comes in when , the majority is ok with the law and the minority wants to change it to suit themselves,people are ok with them doing what they do behind doors, and you have it all wrong , i think it’s the other way around the other countries don’t take us seriously that’s why they think they can walls in and change ours laws, becuase we look vulnerable to them being such a young country, well they can keep out we don’t need their help when it come to our laws

  24. Brightman says:

    @ Jill: Name calling–’caleb fagosco’, really ??? WOW…you’ve REALLY shown your maturity and educated mind! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!

  25. John says:

    @jill: let me tell you something about women who turn to love women after a stupid excuse like that. Don’t you think it is because they would rather pretend to be straight than get shot back a Yabra for revealing who they really are? And when they realize they can’t live with themselves for living a lie, they invent a simple excuse to ‘turn gay’ (as if you can just flip a switch)? Let me tell you from many belizean’s experiences, no matter how much you try to “condition yourself” by getting married to the opposite sex and having kids like you’re supposed to, you won’t be happy inside and you can’t change what you are. If you are ok with kids having their father commit suicide or cheating on his wife with a man because he had to follow what society told him he should do, then you should reexamine your values.

    And let me tell you something about what you said here: “the majority is ok with the law and the minority wants to change it to suit themselves.” It’s about changing the law to increase equality and decrease discrimination. What about the time when black people wanted to change the law to give themselves equal legal status to whites? Don’t you think white people said the same thing about the majority being OK with the law? If you are any color but white, place yourself in your grandparent’s time when the word of the white man was law. Wouldn’t you fight to have such an unjust law changed?

    This is about putting yourself in the shoes of the oppressed. What consenting, loving adults do in private is none of your concern. You should examine the log in your own eye (high divorce rates, so many absentee Belizean fathers, child abuse by the clergy) before you go worrying about the twig in someone else’s.

  26. jill says:

    The question of nature vs. nurture can also be seen by examining children of homosexual vs. heterosexual parents. If homosexuality were purely biological, one would expect that parenting would not influence it. Paul Cameron published a study in 2006 that claimed that the children of homosexual parents expressed a homosexual orientation much more frequently than the general population.39 Although claims of bias were made against the study, another study by Walter Schuum in 2010 confirmed Cameron’s results by statistically examining the results of 10 other studies that addressed the question.40 In total, 262 children raised by homosexual parents were included in the analysis. The results showed that 16-57% of such children adopted a homosexual lifestyle. The results were even more striking in daughters of lesbian mothers, 33% to 57% of whom became lesbians themselves. Since homosexuals makeup only ~5% of the population, it is clear that parenting does influence sexual orientation.

    here are some facts for you John,i agree john , you said it yourself that it’s non of my concern what consenting adult do in PRIVATE, but it becomes my concern and the public concern when they attempt to meddle with our law, it’s not like the police is broking down your doors to catch you in the act then arrest you, the law has no affect on you, unless you are a child molestor, if your’e not this law should’nt affect you .The whole agenda is to attempt to taming us ,and then they will eventually request more rights they think they deserve like marriage and adopting kids , and as the above paragraph shows, they wil impress on the young kids,that they adopt, that the lifestyle is ok. when it’s NOT!
    you think these homos have a twig in their eye , nope they have the log, not sure if it is in their eyes t duhh maybe up their a_ _

    @ bright man yeah really!!!!!! i deserve a standing ovation not only a bravo, don’t you think? hardly care for your sarcasm, you could shove it where those logs go

  27. John says:

    @Jill: It’s too bad that Cameron’s work has already been widely discredited by the scientific community, so that Walter Schumm’s meta-analysis of prior studies is no better than the previous studies themselves. None of the ten samples Schumm relied on used proper random sampling to derive their results, and Schumm himself relied on literary sources carefully chosen to support his conclusion — an easy google search will tell you as much from several independent scholarly sources. If you are going to rely on scientific research, at least respect the process and appreciate the difference between rigorous science and utter nonsense.

    The scientific consensus is that human sexuality is a naturally occurring genetic variation. That is why every reputable psychological organization has removed alternative sexuality as a sickness, in the same way we don’t consider black skin to be a sign of ‘inferiority’.

    You say this issue should not be a problem because cops aren’t breaking down doors. Thanks for taking for granted the fact that if you have a straight partner, you can hold his hand and walk down the street without getting shot. You can kiss him in the park without fearing you will get punched. Thanks for taking for granted that if somebody at work doesn’t like you, she can’t spread rumors that WILL have the police knocking at your door and invading your right to privacy. THIS is what this law is about.

    Oh, and when you say things like “maybe up their a__” you are doing my job for me. You are showing everyone watching, Belizean and foreign, why this is a fight that needs to be fought.

  28. Jill says:

    one man’s sense is another nonsense, you discredited the info i found becuase that’s the way humans behave, once it’s against your lifestyle and beliefs you will, question it, likewise me,
    well i was just showing whatever fact you think you found they are other studies to rebut it, i don’t usually rely on scientist for everything ,, they are smart but man is just man, they don’t know everything either, that’s why i rely moslty on instinct and my instinct tell s me that i am a woman and i should be with a man ,and like what boots said “from i reach an age i know i want a gial friend “that’s the way it should be,
    naturally occuring genetic variation ? u mean unatural ! stop lieing to yourselves, it’s like batteries if you set them in wrong they don’t work but if it was set in the right way it works perfectly,(comparing it to reproduction, anything that cannot produce off spring is against the law of nature and i don’t need any scientist to tell me that , just plain old common sense!
    so what if the law gets past in your favour,, you think it will be the end to discrimination and the end to your problems , your problems will just be starting , you think people wil suddenly say oh how cute those two men look holding hands down the street or how cute those gay couple look kissing in the park, you still will be at risk of getting gun shot, or punched, it’s just the reality ,
    i think it’s pure bull, about what you said about police knocking on your door, they are more likely to kick down a door that they think have weed or drugs than to bother with you, i’ve never heard in the new about gays getting arrested other than when they cross the line and molest a young boy thats why poeple associate them with molestors,
    and why be touchy about the up your a– thing, isn’t it the truth, truth is the truth it shouldn’t bother you, it the norm to you remember!

  29. Jill says:

    one man’s sense is another man’s nonsense , you discredit the info i found because that’s the way human’s behave, anything againast your lifestyle or beliefs, you will discredit or you will gravitate to things you want to hear,likewise me.The info i presented was just to show that anything you found, they are also studies that rebut it.
    i don’t rely on scientist for everything , after all they might be smart but man is just a man, they don’t know everything, and some could also have the same lifestyle, and would pass off their beliefs as facts.
    i rely mostly on my instincts and my insticts tells me that i am a woman and i should be with a man, and like what boots said from he reach an age he know he want a gial friend, and that’s just the way it should be.
    natural genetic variation? u mean un-natural! stop lieing to yourselves,it’s like batteries , if you put them in the wrong way they don’t work but if u put them in the right way it works perfectly(comparing this to reproduction)anything that can’t produce offspring is against the law of nature, and i don’t need a scientist to tell me that, just good old cammon sense.
    so what if the law is passed in your favor, you think it will be an end to the discrimination and an end to your problem , your problem will just be starting, you think people will suddenly think oh how cute those men look walking down the street holding hands or how cute that gay couple look kissing in the park, nope, chances are, you still going to get shot or punched for your actions that’s just the reality
    i think what you said about the police knocking on your door, to invade your privacy is bull, the police is more concern with knocking down doors they think have weed or drugs behind it. i have never heard on the news gays getting arrested unless when they cross the line and molest little boys, that why people associate them with molestors
    oh, why be so touchy about the up ur a- – thing, the truth is the truth you shouldn’t be so touchy after after all it’s the norm to you remember?

  30. brightman says:

    It’s like batteries, you say, Jill. How sad. But at least you seem to be reading, now if only you read correct info. And on your postulation, what happens to women who are barren, and men who are sterile?? Should they be removed from society? As for your instincts as compared to Boots’, rather primitive, rudimentary, don’t you think? Fortunately, most people are realizing that people like you are the true danger to our society. Just make sure that your man, if you have one, is not playing with someone’s log behind your back, for while most gays are born that way, your aggressive and bitter disposition would probably drive a straight man to second-guess his sexual identity!! Peace, dearest.

  31. Jill says:

    bright fool no matter how much we debate you’re the one that will never have peace, you gays are the bitter ones after all i’m not the one that has a deffect, argue all you want thats the womanish mannerisms you’re trying to imitate,hahaha , barren woman and sterile man , didn’t make the choice to be that way and that’s a small minority just like your kind, nobody is removing you from society all i’m saying is lay low with your behaviour and keep it in the closet ,
    and oh please my man knows the sweetness of a woman he would never prefer digging sh—

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