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May 19, 2011

Council of Churches against UNIBAM’s seeking of gay rights

Leroy Flowers

On Tuesday the Council of Churches filed an application in the Supreme Court to join the Attorney General’s Office in a case brought by the United Belize Advocacy Movement (UNIBAM) and its executive president, Caleb Orosco. It’s a case that is attracting local and international attention and high profile lawyers are sitting on both sides of the legal divide.  UNIBAM is challenging Section Fifty-Three of the criminal code, which states that carnal intercourse against the order of nature is an indictable matter which carries a prison sentence of up to ten years.  Orosco, who is openly gay, is seeking to have the law declared unconstitutional since gays can face prison time for sexual preferences.  However, the clergy has come forward with a stinging statement condemning UNIBAM‘s action.  According to Canon Leroy Flowers, who represents the Council of Churches, the motion to argue the validity of the law presents a moral argument despite its origin within the Constitution.

Canon Leroy Flowers, Representative, Council of Churches

“Nobody should be shocked or surprised.  The church is the moral authority within the context of the nation and therefore it is the church’s view that the very challenge that has been brought against the attorney general is really an attack on the teachings of the church and therefore has made its stand known.  This should not be a thing [that’s] new to anyone.  We see this as another undermining of the very moral fiber of the society and while there are many members who may not necessarily agree with the church’s position.  The church has got to maintain its stance [and] its understanding but more importantly as a society we’ve said the very preamble of our constitution talks about the supremacy of God.  You can’t talk about the supremacy of God and then undermine the very thing that seeks to uphold that principle and we feel that a part of that principle has to be between a man and a woman and not a man and a man or two women for that matter or a man and an animal as it were.  Now this does not in any way signify the purity of the church.  It simply seeks to challenge what we believe to be part of the moral fiber of our nation.”

Later in the news cast, we’ll have the reaction from UNIBAM’s executive president.

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31 Responses for “Council of Churches against UNIBAM’s seeking of gay rights”

  1. David says:

    BRAVO , well said,”It simply seeks to challenge what we believe to be part of the moral fiber of our nation”.Enough said!

  2. BZNinCALI says:

    Canon, in your midst are homosexuals & straight acting men. I won’t tell you who they are because I believe you probably already know. Comparing homosexuality to bestiality seems a little silly, My dog is handsome but is a real bad conversationalist, the sucker’s responses are limited to barking, whimpering & wagging its tail & that bath thing & all the fur on his body is…. well a turn off. In addition, even though he & I may understand each other, I am not sure you would understand him & to top it off the boy is illiterate & cannot sign the marriage certificate. I doubt that you will be asked to perform marriages between the species & hopefully you will have enough compassion for the animal & call the authorities to have the owner committed.

  3. BT says:

    Nobody is asking to legalize sex between men and animals so drop that ridiculous and prejudicial argument! Also, “God’s” strictly forbids adultery, so when will the church spend it’s money to hire lawyers to get adulterers sent to jail for 10 years? Check your flock Father, it’s full of adulterers!

  4. chabelli says:

    wrong guy for this

  5. Bz says:

    So the church comes out with guns blazing against gay rights, but says nothing about the death penalty in the laws…… ask me again why I don’t go to church. Hypocrites!

  6. mylegacyb4mypeople says:

    I commend the church for its stance on this issue since it is impossible to be spiritually and politically correct at the same time, although I believe that people were given and should have freedom of choice and should be held responsible for their own actions it is not necessary that the lifestyle they choose which is contrary to that of nature should be legally endorsed and supported by the nation and it’s churches, if there are or were instances where these people are being prosecuted for their consensual behavior then it would be the responsibility of those in authority to make provisions that these acts should not occur but not so far as to endorse and give them our blessings for such behavior, for it is written:

    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    Like all sins Homosexuality is just another sin that must be overtaken there is nothing natural about it, but of course this bible thing and scripture quoting is only for the believers and I don’t expect non believers to agree or understand this, there is no perfect soul we just need to be willing to change from our waywardness. Remember, My legacy B 4 My People

  7. RadicalBelizean says:

    Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    You christian will we familiar with many incidence where God spoke of acceptance yet you go on to select verses to fit the circumstance.

    Conservative politicians and theologians view homosexuality as a lifestyle chose. They believe it is unnatural, and condemned by God. Thus, any attempt to accept homosexuality as a normal, natural orientation is unacceptable and will have the undesirable effect of increasing the number of youths who choose this “Gay lifestyle.”

    On the other hand, the Liberals tend to see homosexuality as a sexual orientation — what one is. It is a natural, normal sexual orientation for a minority. Thus, Just a how blacks had to fight for equality and acceptance, how black and white relationships and there offsprings were eventually seen as natural and given human rights and respect, so too should they have acceptance in 2011 in Belize.

    When we have people like this man taking time out not to discuss this matter but not the high, very high incidence of daily murders all he will do is give ammunition to the homophobes and increase gay bashing and other acts of oppression and discrimination dished out to this group of people.

    By the way, I am have no other interest in this story than to say I truly believe that we should live and let live. Everyone will have their own Judgement Day with God, and I am of the opinion no one would choose to deliberately put themselves in danger of what bigotry could cause.

    Still, while I was writing this note my alarm on my phone went off to remind me its doom’s day tomorrow according to Harp and his followers so who knows we will have Judgement Day sooner than we realise.

  8. Dvirgin says:

    STAND STRONG THE FATHERS!! THE LAW SHOULD NOT BE CHANGE OK LEAVE IT AS IT IS

  9. E says:

    if section 53 of the constitution is removed then what will protect children from being sodomized? that will mean that anybody can pick up anybody no matter what age or sex they are for sodomization.

  10. george usher says:

    i dont think u guys forget when we let that gay in we had hurricane for about 5 years all hurricane came to belize do the right thing adam and eve not steve be careful i mean that gay ship that no one wanted belize lets obay god we use to stone them to death thats the law right dont change it please good luck guys this is central america not america

  11. John Boy,Carson,Ca says:

    When you mix ignorance and religon you have a bad combination.What two consenting adults do behind closed door is their buisness.Get a life people.The constitution is to protect everyone,and not just hate groups who are religous fanatic.If two men,or two men engaged in sex what is that to you.Maybe you guys are jealous and would like some of the action.Your bible say love every one.Read your bible and you will see that God create everyone,and he said to love your brother.

  12. Jesus is the only Hope says:

    …To the people that keep attacking the church, people go to church to live better to learn of morals and values, about the differences between right and wrong…in conclusion we are not perfect but seek help. If you have an injury or illness will you not try to get medical help? Well then that why we go to church we are living in a sinful world/environment Jesus is our Doctor. We fall or stumble but we get up and move forward running the race. on Judgment day the case is between you and God no one else. Christians don’t hate gay people – what we hate is the act. We will stand our ground proudly and unwavering “NO To SODOMITY”!

  13. BT says:

    @E, there are already separate laws in the criminal code that are meant to protect children from sexual exploitation and abuse. With the epidemic of “carnal knowledge” crimes committed by MEN on young GIRLS, if we apply your logic to that situation we should outlaw HETEROSEXUAL sex.

    @George Usher, if you remember your history correctly Belize was at risk of a direct hit from Mitch and instead ultimately got spared at the expense of Honduras who lost over 5,000 people. So maybe God rewarded Belize for allowing the ship to dock by diverting Mitch south? Also, in 1961 Hurricane Hattie devastated Belize soon after Belize switched from driving on the left hand side to the right. Should we heed God’s warning and go back to driving on the left hand side of the road?

  14. RadicalBelizean says:

    George Believe it or not Gays had nothing to do with the hurricane, If and I say if it was linked to the sins of the people well where do I start?

    How about looking the commandments:

    Adultery & pre-marital sex – so many men planting there seeds then walking away as though its nothing to do with them.

    Do not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

    Honor your father and your mother – so don’t disrespect or kill your parents

    False witness against thy neighbours – on a daily basis remember the coupe down south

    Do not commit murder – I forgot what number we are at since the year began

    Do not steal – well ah last count

    Do not worship any other God and do not make carved images of any other Gods – so don’t consult the obeah man to find out things about your neighbour

    Now tell me Mr Usher all these things would surely come before any bloody ship with people merely wishing to explore Belize.

    You see I would have more respect for any religious leader who come forward and address these issues in our society of Belize, because this is really what is undermining of the very moral fiber of the society. Children having children, absent fathers, generations of single motherhood in a family, which promotes the vicious cycle of poverty, poor education, underage sex and crime. Not whether two people of the same sex falls in love.

    And E! the high number of girls and boys in Belize who are raped and sodomized are victims of so-called Heterosexual men (pedophiles). So don’t get it twisted. No one will ever condone anyone having sex with a child under the age of 18 who can’t give consent to sex and haven’t developed appropriate negotiating skills for that activity whether homosexual or heterosexual.

    So hurricane will come again but because of the hypocrisy as your God is not asleep.

  15. hmm says:

    this sucks. i was only on this site to read about the guy who will blame dean barrow for everything. lol.

  16. Mylegacyb4mypeople says:

    Jesus is the only Hope, well said it has nothing to do with hate it is the act but don’t expect these people to understand this , they are most certainly not believers, would make a lot of sense to all if they just state this, that way everyone would clearly see it’s a battle against God’s army and the Devi’s, again there is sin in all of us and I clearly accept that I am a sinner but will surely not go to arms to have my sins justified, accepted as ok or endorsed by the world and certainly don’t agree on having homosexuals persecuted for their lifestyle, let them be responsible for their own actions and everybody else providing they don’t infringe on the rights of others, not sharing another’s belief has nothing to do with hating, don’t confuse the two. Remember, My Legacy B 4 My People.

  17. Elgin Martinez says:

    John,Boy,Carson,Ca: What two consenting adults do behind doors is definately their business.However it become our business when they try to impose their nasty lifestyle on every Belizean Citizen.

  18. the chruches need to cool it. says:

    You can’t talk about and pretend to uphold the supremacy of God and uphold a law that is unjust and ungodly. Churches should make peace and unite mankind, not separate and segregate people on the basis of their sexuality. People need to open their eyes before they open their Bibles. FYI Council of Churches, hating and discriminating people is not the way to heaven. The Word of the Lord.

  19. John Boy,Carson,Ca says:

    @ Elgin just because you say it is nasty that dosn’t make it nasty.My point is the police in Belize are unable to police the streets of Belize,how could they police what people do in their bedroom.
    No one is trying to impose a gay life style on no one,Why should it be against the law.They are not hurting no one.All progessive countries in the world accept different life style.I have more of a problem with ignorant people, than with gays.I am not gay,but I will not hate someone just because they are.It is like me hateing someone because they are different.I know stupid people would not understand that,why,because they are stupid.

  20. Elgin Martinez says:

    The churches need to cool it:The churches opposing to this law doesn’t necessarily mean that they are separating the people.So are you implying that the churches would have bring the people together if they were in favor of this law?Furthermore the churches having a different point of view on this issue doesn’t mean that they are hating and discriminating people,and if that is the case i can say thesame thing about you because we both don’t share thesame views on this issue.So maybe you are the one who needs to cool it.

  21. Iniate says:

    LOL HMMM…

  22. Elgin Martinez says:

    John Boy,Carson,Ca: No one is saying that been gay is against the law.Furthermore no one in Belize is been arrested for being Gay.My problem is with Mr Orosco requesting that part of the laws be ammended to condone this kind of life style.As you stated that what happen between two consenting adults behind close door is their business,Then let them continue doing whatever they want to do behind close doors.What do they want for the Government to give them permission to do their sexual act in the public?Aren’t they doing enough behind close doors.?

  23. Stop judging says:

    Wow, it’s 2011. The church needs to understand that if they think someone’s lifestyle is wrong, then it should be God who judges them! No one else. Everyone deserves fair and equal treatment in this beautiful planet, understanding, and the right to live their life free.

  24. BZNinCALI says:

    @george usher, you were annoyed & called on Dean to do something after your buddy, Mr Neal, who ran Lord Ridge Cemetery was murdered, after he whooped his baby Mama. Now you are on here advocating violence, Belizeans have replaced stones with bullets, no one should die because they fail to live by YOUR standards. Hurricanes, like blizzards, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc are natural, I believe we still we call it weather, sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad but I don’t believe God sent the hurricane to wash away the fairy dust left by the gays.

    You are old enough to know that being gay is not a trend that started in America that Belizeans are now trying to adopt, we have always had gay men & women in our midst. Just keep your boy holstered & just say No, you don’t have to stone a brother for blowing a brother.

  25. Christian&Gay says:

    Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals are doomed to spend eternity in Hell. If they wanted to change, they could be healed of their evil ways. If they would turn away from temptation, they could be normal again if only they would try and try harder if it doesn’t work. These are all the things I said to my son Bobby when I found out that he was gay. When he told me he was a homosexual my world fell apart. I did everything I could to cure him of his sickness. Eight months ago my son jumped off a bridge and killed himself. I deeply regret my lack of knowledge about gay and lesbian people. I see that everything I was taught and told was bigotry and de-humanizing slander. If I had investigated beyond what I was told, if I had just listened to my son when he poured his heart out to me, I would not be standing here today with you filled with regret. I believe that God was pleased with Bobby’s kind and loving spirit. In God’s eyes kindness and love are what it’s all about. I didn’t know that each time I echoed eternal damnation for gay people, each time I referred to Bobby as sick and perverted and a danger to our children. His self esteem and sense of worth were being destroyed. And finally his spirit broke beyond repair. It was not God’s will that Bobby climbed over the side of a freeway overpass and jumped directly into the path of an eighteen-wheel truck, which killed him instantly. Bobby’s death was the direct result of his parent’s ignorance and fear of the word gay. He wanted to be a writer. His hopes and dreams should not have been taken from him but they were. There are children, like Bobby, sitting in your congregations. Unknown to you they will be listening as you echo “amen”, and that will soon silence their prayers. Their prayers to God for understanding and acceptance and for your love. But your hatred and fear and ignorance of the word gay will silence those prayers. So, before you echo “amen” in your home and place of worship, think. Think and remember, a child is listening. -Mary Griffith

  26. Sodom and Gomorrah says:

    may i ask what has happened to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? have we forgotten the reason they are no more? I guess you few Belizeans would love to see Belize go sodomizing in flames…

  27. Pride Belize says:

    The Lord is my Shepherd and he knows I’m gay.

  28. BZNinCALI says:

    Christian&Gay/Mary Griffith, sorry for your loss, hopefully someone will learn something from your story.

  29. Iwillforeverlovethem says:

    amazing! i absolutely love that he is standing up for himself, very strong and brave indeed! <3

  30. AJ says:

    Just because homosexuality is being accepted on the international stage doesn’t make it right. There is always right and wrong, and when the majority is wrong, the majority is wrong.
    To accept homosexuality in a nation does undermine it’s moral fabric, and leads to the descent into more wrong doing (romans 1). That is why it is such a huge issue. I live in Canada, where gay marriage is legal. We also have the gay pride parade, which is such a licentious act, that you advocates of the homosexual lifestyle wouldn’t dare bring your children there. They pretty much have near sex acts on city streets in this parade.
    Acceptance of homosexuality here has also lead to elimination of free speech. You can get in big, big trouble for simply saying you disagree with homosexuality publicly. The protection of belief and opinion in Canada is no longer sacred. We are becoming an intolerant nation in the name of “tolerance”.
    I site these things because when Belize accepts homosexuality (i say when, because it probably will)..) you will face similar degradation. In Canada we know also face the problem of polygamy. If we accept homosexual marriage, why not polygamy? why not animal and human marriage? all this too will further destroy the country.
    That being said, Christ also ate with publicans and sinners, and gave his life for homosexuals that they might be saved. The Bible also says to speak evil of no man (Titus 3:2), so i disagree with the outright rage and bitter words against them. Let not cursing come out with blessing out of your mouths (James 3:10), however that doesn’t omit us from administering righteous judgment and striving to protect the moral integrity of society.
    Mary Griffith, sorry for your loss. But just because that happened doesn’t mean your son’s lifestyle wasn’t wrong… and Any person can find a sense of worth knowing that God the Son died under God the Father’s wrath to save them, to give them life. I know I did.
    http://illbehonest.com/Jesus-Christ-Saved-Me-from-27-Years-of-Homosexuality-David-Upton

  31. Akeem Williams says:

    the last thing belize needs is to have kids growing up thinking its ok to be with the same sex!! pastor Rodney was alive right now we mi a have some serious ruction! none a that in belize! meck deh go farin go married! none a that dah bz

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